Posted by8 months ago
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Hello all, I want to preface this post by saying that I have been collecting Death Korps of Krieg (infrequently but a few units here and there) for the greater part of a decade and have finally amassed (and more importantly finished painting and basing) enough of them to begin forming a list.
One of the issues I have been running into is the armies complete lack of efficiency. Many Dkok options are just worse than their regular astra militarum equivalents or feature an unreasonable point cost. Regardless, I have been running a couple of lists in competitive play to see if I can make any combination of my units work without much (or any) success.
Now that I have a handful of games under my belt with the army I have decided to post a couple of my lists to see if anyone with Dkok or astra militarum experience can help me fine tune my lists a little bit more to try and yield more successful results.
Before I post the actual lists, I wanted to start out by talking about the units I have been using and their perceived performance vs their actual performance (over the course of about 7 games against varied opponents. All matches played were using ITC champions missions) with commentary on what they were able to do to represent their point cost.
HQ Review:
Field Marshal/Field officer - Perceived performance - Order giver. Actual Performance - Order giver. Not much to say with these guys, they did everything I wanted them to do. Nothing flashy, I wish they did anything other than lay down and die in melee in the few times they had to join the fight.
Infantry Squad (10 man) - Perceived performance - Objective holder and Horde thinner. Actual Performance - These guys were surprisingly nice. ~~They have a 3+ ballistic skill which is pretty solid for being a guard~~(I was thinking of the grenadier stat line >.<) Their 'without mercy' order is pretty nifty for giving them pseudo rapid fire at 24 inch range. I only expected them to thin out GEQ or worse, but they proved pretty valuable at stripping off a few wounds from MEQ. Their biggest weakness is not having rerolls of 1 to hit without having to take something like Yarrick.
Grenadier Squad (5 man) - Perceived performance - Flex Option. I ran them as 5 man squads to utilize the centaurs pregame move and armed them with meltas. I did not have any specific plan for them other than to have mobile bodies with objective secured with just enough teeth to warrant shots from the opponent. Actual Performance - FANTASTIC doesn't even begin to describe these guys. At first I was worried with putting expensive meltas on an overprice guardsman body but they ended up being MVP's in every single game. Thanks to the centaurs speed these guys were always where they needed to be and in games where my heavy weapons were disabled early (I HATE castellans) these guys were able to disembark and take huge chunks out of key targets. Obviously they aren't ever going to take a big target down by themselves, but having access to a couple of extra melta shots after a disappointing shooting phase from bigger guns is pretty nice.
Centaur Assault Transport - Perceived performance - Grenadier squad ferry. Actual performance - Meh. I can't really complain about a 54 point transport that has a 9 inch pregame move and has a movement value of 12 with 6 heavy stubber shots per turn. But I will. Its a 54 point tax on an already overcosted unit of guardsman inside. Because it has a BS of 4, and its always moving it basically never lands a shot so its almost not even worth wasting the time to roll the dice, but at least it gets my melta wielding guardsman to their targets faster.
Heavy Weapons Squad (All mortars) - Perceived performance - Dakka point filler. Actual performance - Meh. I don't think these guys ever did anything notable. The range is really nice, and on a high roll it feels pretty good to roll like 30+ dice for one squad. But at the end of the day they shoot at a worse BS then the rest of the army, and are only hitting with S4 AP 0 D1 shots. I shouldn't complain since they are only 30 points, but I felt that they never really did anything.
Cavalry (i'm counting the veterans, commander, and regular ones as one because they were always together) - Perceived performance - distraction. Actual performance - Meh. These guys do pull a ton of attention, which is what I took them for. But they are nothing to write home about. They die to a round and a half of dedicated shooting, and if they do make it into melee they might take a couple MEQ with them. I was not impressed, and probably won't run them anymore. The whole package of Cavalry, with the vets to give them deep strike and the commander are way too expensive for way too little return. I'm sure they can work in lists that give them support, but for my playstyle and lists I don't think they fit in well at all.
THE BIG GUNS
Apart from the cavalry (I used them in one game and never again), these next units are all what I would consider viable anti tank options and are what i'm confused about with my list moving forward.
Mars Pattern Leman Russ Annihilator - Perceived performance - Tank Killer. Actual Performance - I like them, even though I feel as though they never really accomplished what I needed them to do by themselves. In the games where I had them I ran them as a squadron of 3. So in my mind, 12(+3) Lascannon shots per turn would be more than ample to deal with armored targets but they never really dealt the killing blows. In one game I was playing against a pretty nasty knight list, and somehow managed to secure the first turn. At first thought, I was sure I was going to remove at least two knights with my alpha strike (using these guys and another big gun ill talk about later) but to my dismay I barely managed to remove a gallant and deal a couple of wounds to an armiger. The alpha pattern S4 protection is pretty nifty though, I didn't think it would matter but on the rare occasions it pops up it basically guarantees no bolters or mortar fire are going to strip off any wounds. Like I said, I really like these guys, but Im still unsure of the support they need to actually produce the results I imagined they would.
Mars Pattern Leman Russ Demolisher - Perceived performance - Tank DESTROYER. Actual performance - Sad. Sad days are awarded to those brave enough to field these. On paper they looked amazing. The dedicated tank destroyer I was looking for. I thought surely, after my luke warm reception with the annihilators these things would restore my faith in the leman russ family. Boy was I disappointed. I thought to myself 24 inch range, that's not so bad. Ill just pair it up with some melta sponsons I thought. Even with grinding advance this thing is seemingly NEVER in position to deal with high priority targets. Mind you, I've been playing competitive Warhammer for a long time. I do pretty well at the events I attend and I work on improving my game whenever possible so I'd like to think that my positioning and deployment are at the very least above average, and even then I feel as though the range on this guy is too prohibitive. Theres basically no scenario where you are able to reap the benefits of grinding advance and land a shot on a preferred target if your opponent is good at spacing their threats and always staying outside of your effective threat range, couple this with the fact that you are basically ALWAYS going to be in range and line of sight of their big guns for obvious reasons, itll basically never make its points up. For these reasons Ill have to say that I'll probably bench this variant when it comes to competitive play moving forward.
Valdor Tank Hunter (I know, its not technically Dkok but I thought its nuclear core went hand in hand with the theme of cult of sacrifice)- Perceived Performance - Troll Distraction. Laugh farmer. Actual Performance - 'Why did you even buy this?' Ive been asked many times. I just like the way it looks, so I bought this thing many moons ago but haven't played any games with it until I finished painting my forgeworld things recently. Amazing. I can't believe this thing actually impressed me. I knew that its gun was nasty, and I knew that its nuclear core was going to be hilarious for opponents that never encountered this unit but I never thought it would actually make its points back and then some. The look on your opponents face when you seize the initiative and open up the shooting phase with this monster on his biggest vehicle is priceless. The look on their face is twice as priceless, as you move this thing toward their army at a blistering 10 inches per turn. Many of my opponents were wondering, 'why are you charging your lord of war at me?' Only to find out that when it dies it has a wonderful detonation. I cant say with a straight face that this bad boy will make it into my lists moving forward, but it isn't completely useless, and it works wonders on opponents that haven't encountered it yet.
Cyclops demolition Engine - Perceived Performance - Troll distraction, expensive baneling. Actual Performance - Completely below average. I never expected this thing to make it to an opponent, so I was never disappointed when it didn't. It stings to just see 60 points disappear to small arms fire, but on the very rare occasion (I'm talking at least once every ten or so games lol) one of these will make it into their detonation range and be a nice extra bit of splash damage to weaken up your opponents front lines. There isn't much else I can say about these since they don't really do anything other than draw attention from your opponents. One of the best uses I found for them was sticking them next to my LRBT's as a Turn 2 charge deterrent. Its actually the only time they did anything. Being able to fall back with a unit and move a cyclops into its place is pretty funny, but I don't think itll happen frequently enough to warrant including these guys in a serious list.
Earthshaker Cannon Carriage - Perceived Performance - Armor tenderizer. Actual performance - 'Hmmm.' I was already pretty peeved that they are MORE expensive than a basilisk with none of the bells and whistles a basilisk has (like access to good doctrines, or even a Master of ordnance) but I was even more appalled when I played my list testing buddy and he pointed out that they DONT have the immobile special rule. As you can imagine, having a stationary basilisk with no access to rerolls of any kind feels pretty horrible. And it plays similarly. With that being said, I don't see any way around including them since they are the most reliable heavy damage this army has access too (or at least that's how it feels after a handful of games). The only problem with these guys is I feel like you have to take all 9 or you might as well not take any. When you shoot with 3-6 of these and fail to accomplish anything you always think to yourself 'If only I had 3 more,' but then when you use all 9 and fail to accomplish anything, you think to yourself 'maybe I should run annihilators instead' and you see how my lists have been developing.
So this is where I am looking to you fine list builders and commenters to help me fine tune this list. I'm going to post 2 of my most revised lists to see if anyone has any ideas on what to change, and what works for them. Do keep in mind that due to the performance of the grenadier squads I would probably like to keep them, but if anyone has any ideas on a better transport for 4 squads then 4 centaur assault vehicle I am all ears.
List 1, The slightly troll, literal cult of sacrifice list. In this list I have opted for the valdor, and 3 cyclops' to run straight into the enemy. For deployment, ill usually deploy valdor mirrored to the largest mass of the opponents forces (with LOS to one big threat) and deploy the rest of my forces on the opposite table edge to avoid friendly fire) while the cyclops follow as close as possible to the centaurs to use them as cover in hopes of making it to a target. I ran a list very similar to this with the annihilators and demolishers. In this variation I have cut the demolishers (and cavalry) to allow for the valdor tank hunter. The cyclops are here because they might be able to make it in if the opponent is focusing on the valdor (likewise, the valdor might make it in if the opponent is worried about the cyclops, though this will need more games to see if it is valid)
List 2, More of a serious list (a similar iteration of this list featuring a vanguard of assassins instead of 1~ mortar team and 3 earthshakers was probably the best performing list, but in a game against a knight heavy list 6 earthshakers just wasn't enough to deal the kind of damage I was looking for to allow my other units to clean up the mess which is why I am opting for 3 more earthshakers)
**++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - FW Death Korps of Krieg) [61 PL, 854pts] ++**
**+ HQ +**
**Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 24pts]:** Death Korps Orders, Hot-Shot Lasgun
**Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 24pts]:** Death Korps Orders, Grand Strategist, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Kurov's Aquila, Warlord
**+ Troops +**
**Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 50pts]:** 9x Death Korps Guardsman
. **Death Korps Watch Master:** Lasgun
**Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 50pts]:** 9x Death Korps Guardsman
. **Death Korps Watch Master:** Lasgun
**Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 50pts]:** 9x Death Korps Guardsman
. **Death Korps Watch Master:** Lasgun
**Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 50pts]:** 9x Death Korps Guardsman
. **Death Korps Watch Master:** Lasgun
**+ Heavy Support +**
**Death Korps Heavy Weapons Squad [4 PL, 30pts]**
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar Far cry 3 download for pc highly compressed.
May 7, 2011 - ENGLISH GRAMMAR The Passive Voice. The passive of an active tense is formed by putting the verb to be into the same. 2.3 Passive Voice and Active Voice—Uses. Compare: Active: The man ate the fish. Passive: The man was. Passive voice exercises pdf with answers multiple choice. Passive Voice Exercises. Cited and adapted from. Winkler, Anthony C., and Jo Ray McCuen. Writing Talk: Paragraphs and Short Essays with Readings. Passive voice - Test 1. A - Are the sentences written in Active or Passive? 1) Steven likes to play baseball. 6) The exercise is completed by the teacher.
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
**Death Korps Heavy Weapons Squad [4 PL, 30pts]**
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
**Death Korps Leman Russ Mars-Alpha Battle Tanks [33 PL, 546pts]**
. **Leman Russ Mars-Alpha Annilator:** Lascannon, Turret-mounted Twin Lascannon
. **Leman Russ Mars-Alpha Annilator:** Lascannon, Turret-mounted Twin Lascannon
. **Leman Russ Mars-Alpha Annilator:** Lascannon, Turret-mounted Twin Lascannon
**++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - FW Death Korps of Krieg) [37 PL, 752pts] ++**
**+ HQ +**
**Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 24pts]:** Death Korps Orders, Hot-Shot Lasgun
**Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 24pts]:** Death Korps Orders, Hot-Shot Lasgun
**+ Troops +**
**Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 77pts]**
. **2x Death Korps Grenadier:** 2x Hot-Shot Lasgun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier Watch Master:** Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol
**Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 77pts]**
. **2x Death Korps Grenadier:** 2x Hot-Shot Lasgun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier Watch Master:** Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol
**Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 77pts]**
. **2x Death Korps Grenadier:** 2x Hot-Shot Lasgun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier Watch Master:** Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol
**Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 77pts]**
. **2x Death Korps Grenadier:** 2x Hot-Shot Lasgun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier Watch Master:** Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol
**+ Heavy Support +**
**Cyclops Demolition Vehicle [9 PL, 180pts]:** Cyclops, Cyclops, Cyclops
**+ Dedicated Transport +**
**Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]:** 2x Heavy stubber
**Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]:** 2x Heavy stubber
**Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]:** 2x Heavy stubber
**Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]:** 2x Heavy stubber
**++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [18 PL, 394pts] ++**
**+ No Force Org Slot +**
**Regimental Doctrine:** Catachan
**+ Lord of War +**
**Valdor Tank Hunter [18 PL, 394pts]:** Heavy Stubber, Lascannon
**++ Total: [116 PL, 2000pts] ++**
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- List Two
**++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - FW Death Korps of Krieg) [32 PL, 338pts] ++**
**+ HQ +**
**Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 24pts]:** Death Korps Orders, Hot-Shot Lasgun
**Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 24pts]:** Death Korps Orders, Grand Strategist, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Kurov's Aquila, Warlord
**+ Troops +**
**Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 50pts]:** 9x Death Korps Guardsman
. **Death Korps Watch Master:** Lasgun
**Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 50pts]:** 9x Death Korps Guardsman
. **Death Korps Watch Master:** Lasgun
**Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 50pts]:** 9x Death Korps Guardsman
. **Death Korps Watch Master:** Lasgun
**Death Korps Infantry Squad [4 PL, 50pts]:** 9x Death Korps Guardsman
. **Death Korps Watch Master:** Lasgun
**+ Heavy Support +**
**Death Korps Heavy Weapons Squad [4 PL, 30pts]**
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
**Death Korps Heavy Weapons Squad [4 PL, 30pts]**
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
**Death Korps Heavy Weapons Squad [4 PL, 30pts]**
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
. **Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team:** Mortar
**++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - FW Death Korps of Krieg) [64 PL, 1661pts] ++**
**+ HQ +**
**Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 24pts]:** Death Korps Orders, Hot-Shot Lasgun
**Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 24pts]:** Death Korps Orders, Hot-Shot Lasgun
**+ Troops +**
**Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 77pts]**
. **2x Death Korps Grenadier:** 2x Hot-Shot Lasgun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier Watch Master:** Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun
**Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 77pts]**
. **2x Death Korps Grenadier:** 2x Hot-Shot Lasgun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier Watch Master:** Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun
**Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 77pts]**
. **2x Death Korps Grenadier:** 2x Hot-Shot Lasgun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier Watch Master:** Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun
**Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 77pts]**
. **2x Death Korps Grenadier:** 2x Hot-Shot Lasgun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier w/Special Weapon:** Meltagun
. **Grenadier Watch Master:** Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun
**+ Heavy Support +**
**Earthshaker Carriage Battery [12 PL, 363pts]**
. **Earthshaker Carriage:** Crewman, Crewman, Crewman, Crewman
. **Earthshaker Carriage:** Crewman, Crewman, Crewman, Crewman
. **Earthshaker Carriage:** Crewman, Crewman, Crewman, Crewman
**Earthshaker Carriage Battery [12 PL, 363pts]**
. **Earthshaker Carriage:** Crewman, Crewman, Crewman, Crewman
. **Earthshaker Carriage:** Crewman, Crewman, Crewman, Crewman
. **Earthshaker Carriage:** Crewman, Crewman, Crewman, Crewman
**Earthshaker Carriage Battery [12 PL, 363pts]**
. **Earthshaker Carriage:** Crewman, Crewman, Crewman, Crewman
. **Earthshaker Carriage:** Crewman, Crewman, Crewman, Crewman
. **Earthshaker Carriage:** Crewman, Crewman, Crewman, Crewman
Death Korps Of Krieg Army
**+ Dedicated Transport +**
**Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]:** 2x Heavy stubber
**Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]:** 2x Heavy stubber
**Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]:** 2x Heavy stubber
**Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]:** 2x Heavy stubber
**++ Total: [96 PL, 1999pts] ++**
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TL;DR I am looking for opinions that compare these two lists to see which one **seems** stronger. I am open to any kind of advice, but I'd really like opinions on which list seems like the better TAC option for an upcoming tournament. Sorry for the bad formatting, I was too lazy to go back through and make my list look less ugly.0014
14 comments
Warhammer 40k - In Love and Krieg Living as a civilian in the Imperium of Man is either outright horrifying or absolutely boring. A vast spanding, galactic Empire lead by the God-Emperor himself is hard to summarize. To put it simply, we own a considerable chunk of the galaxy, some hive worlds are horrible to live on and others are pretty alright. Criminals write a lot of counter propaganda that paint the Imperium in colours other than its trademark silver, decals of gold, royal reds as maroon as blood and grim blacks with tones of mechanical gray. Truth be told, it is all somewhere inbetween. If we could complain, we would. The wise decision is to not. This is the way of life on my home planet, Jordin. We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us. It is merely a fly on the arm of the God Emperor. It is a small planet very similar to Holy Terra, broken into numerous countries with individual governments that all acknowledge the Imperial rule. We are somewhat locked in a Dark Age of Technology. Couple dec